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Buffy #7 - spoilery thoughts

March 15th, 2012 (02:50 pm)


In a nutshell:
Spike confesses his love to Buffy and they almost kiss. But - oops! - Buffy's a robot! Except she doesn't think she's a robot and she acts as real Buffy.
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For a detailed synopsis, read Zianna's recap.

Spoilery thoughts:
I think that you can hardly apply formal logic to this kind of universe, but still.

First of all, I think that it's real Buffy's consciousness in a bot's body. All her reactions look and sound genuine. Besides, on the cover of #10 Buffy says "Only you could lose your own body". So, it should be her trapped in a bot's body.

Second, I think it happened recently and it was Andrew who, somehow, did it. Has he become a Rossum Corporation's spy? Anyway, according to the solicits, it happened because of his stupid plans. In #3 we saw him crafting a robot - apparently, a new Buffybot. It should be more or less similar to the Buffybot from season 5-6. It doesn't eat. It doesn't pee or throw up. It doesn't drink coffee as Buffy did in #6.

It means that the switch has happened between #6 and #7, most likely several hours before the events of #7, so that Buffy didn't have time to realize that she doesn't need to eat and drink.

Most likely, Andrew has created a robot and transferred Buffy's consciousness into it to preserve Buffy's body intact for the duration of the pregnancy. But, as solicits indicate, something happens to it, and, for a while, Buffy can't get it back.

Third, I think the most important question is what happens to Buffy's body right now? Buffy's pregnant body. I bet that by the time she gets her body back it won't be pregnant anymore. Her baby will already be born and taken away.

I think that, in order to tie up all the loose threads, Buffy should have twins - future Melaca and Harth. At least, that's what could be really interesting. Of course, I remember that Melaca has an older sister, Erin. But we know nothing about their parents, so Joss is free to invent whatever he wants.

Who's the daddy? My prime suspect is still the neighbor, Heinrich (2D). And the more the story develops the more I'm sure that Buffy's blackout at the party is part of a complex conspiracy with global consequences.

Spuffy tidbits:
I thoroughly enjoyed all Spuffy scenes. I know that many people are unhappy with them, but I don't share fandom's frustrations. Buffy and Spike are real, funny and snarky. And, as usual, they're both in denial and send each other mixed signals. But, eventually, Spike admits his feelings to Buffy. Buffy's defenses are crumbling. She is ready to kiss him. And then something crazy happens to interrupt them. Because, if it didn't happen, it would be the end of the show. A happily ever after is the biggest poison to effective storytelling.

Frankly, I was so afraid that this issue Buffy and Spike would get a closure - but it looks like Joss plans to tease us with Spuffy prospects at least till the end of the season.

Other tidbits:
When Dowling's partner, Det. Cheung called Spike "peroxide play date" I wondered if it could be a clue that Dowling is gay.

I like that bugs have the sense of humor (a bug messes with Dowling telling him that on his planet they step on bug-sized humans).

Spike's line "European use alien sockets" made me laugh out loud. We use alien sockets! We're aliens! But, seriously, after reading endless debates on Buffy's decision to make an abortion, I realized how different our mentalities are. I just don't see a problem there. At all. And it looks like all my European friends don't see it too. But, apparently, it's a huge issue in USA.

Looking forward to the next issue!

Comments

Posted by: lusciousxander (lusciousxander)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 11:22 am (UTC)

The Spuffy of the issue was wonderful!!! I loved all their conversations and would love to see fanfics about them. I don't know if I like the robot development, but knowing that it's Buffy, our real Buffy, I'm relieved. I don't want this to be a robot thinking it was Buffy, and thankfully I know this is not the case.

Dowling being the gay character would be made of awesome! I'm waiting for him to come out!

Posted by: Elena (moscow_watcher)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 02:45 pm (UTC)
Buffy

Oh, I agree about comics. I hope there will be fanfics about Buffy's adventures in space!

Posted by: ashes1753 (ashes1753)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 12:30 pm (UTC)

haven't started season 9 yet, but i'm not worried about spoilers. LOL

Buffy's children cannot be Melaka or her twin brother, not because she had an older sister, but because the events of 'BtVS' happened almost 2 century's earlier then the events of 'Fray: Future Slayer" :)

Posted by: Elena (moscow_watcher)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 02:53 pm (UTC)
Spangel

haven't started season 9 yet, but i'm not worried about spoilers. LOL

I think it's a lesson all Buffy fans have learned: we should be prepared!

Buffy's children cannot be Melaka or her twin brother, not because she had an older sister, but because the events of 'BtVS' happened almost 2 century's earlier then the events of 'Fray: Future Slayer" :)

Buffy traveled there is season 8 and that arc basically ended with a big question mark. That story isn't finished. It would be neat if Buffy's babies were stolen and sent to Frayverse to avoid the return of magic. And the easiest way to do it is when she has no control of her body.

It was mentioned in "Fray" that magic has started to seep back into the world a while ago. Joss could always retcon it: magic started to seep back as soon as Melaca and Harth appeared there.

I don't insist that I'm right - I just think it could be a neat wrap up of the verse.

Posted by: Kerry (kerry_220)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 12:31 pm (UTC)
Faith and I

Add Australians to your mentality list, Elena. I find it mystifying that laws some forty years old are being treated like something that just happened.

I enjoyed the issue. I find the developments amusing and intriguing

Posted by: Elena (moscow_watcher)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 03:26 pm (UTC)
AngelFaith

Yay! Another person who enjoys season 9! *waves*

Posted by: Shapinglight (shapinglight)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 01:26 pm (UTC)

I think the switch must have happened earlier myself, since the fairy in 5 told Buffy 'the slayer was a part of her but you're not a girl any more.' Everyone thought this was because of her being pregnant and therefore 'a woman' now, but no. It must have meant she's not a girl because she's a robot.

Posted by: Barb (rahirah)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 02:00 pm (UTC)

Which, if so, actually makes that line less icky, but begs the question of HOW CAN YOU NOT NOTICE YOU'RE A ROBOT?

Posted by: Shapinglight (shapinglight)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 02:25 pm (UTC)
rachel

How can it not know what it is?

Shouldn't drag Bladerunner into this mess, but it fits, so :shrug:

Posted by: TimeTravellingBunny (boot_the_grime)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 11:06 pm (UTC)

Well, actually, it doesn't, since Replicants aren't robots. They're flesh and blood, virtually indistinguishable from humans. There's no way that a mechanical robot can go for longer period of time without noticing it's made of metal and wires and that it doesn't actually pee or shit or have any of the bodily functions that humans do.

Posted by: Elena (moscow_watcher)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 03:32 pm (UTC)

I wonder how often she needs to be recharged.

Posted by: StephenT (stormwreath)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 03:38 pm (UTC)
cameron-gobad

I'm confused why this is even an issue. How do you know you're human? Can you prove to me, right now, that your right arm is made of flesh and blood and bone as opposed to metal and wires with a layer of synthetic skin over the top? Unless you go for an x-ray, (or get your own arm cut off) I don't think you'd know.

And even if there were clues - then you could simply be programmed to forget them.

Posted by: Barb (rahirah)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 04:02 pm (UTC)

I can't prove it to you, because you're an ocean away. I could be a sentient goldfish for all you know. But I would know pretty damn fast if I were not flesh and blood, because I bang myself up on a regular basis doing yardwork, and I, y'know, bleed. If I stopped bleeding, I would at least be a little curious. Buffy's slayer healing, strength and whatnot doesn't stop her from being injured. I'm pretty sure I would also notice if any number of annoying biological functions ceased to annoy.

Now, maybe RoboBuffy is capable of simulating eating and elimination and so forth. I can buy that, it's fantasy, though i would hope that they mention it at some point. But I can't buy that there are no clues - and if Buffy were programmed to forget them, why wouldn't she also have been programmed to 'see' her torn-off arm as blood and shattered bone?

Posted by: Elena (moscow_watcher)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 04:27 pm (UTC)

I think we're supposed to suspence our disbelief here.

Posted by: ladypeyton (ladypeyton)
Posted at: March 16th, 2012 05:12 pm (UTC)

Well, for one I wouldn't have had a massive allergic reaction to the 2 loons who came into my office wearing toxic amounts of perfume this morning...

Come to think of it, times like these I *WISH* I had a robot body.

Edited at 2012-03-16 05:12 pm (UTC)

Posted by: Lisa (shipperx)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 06:22 pm (UTC)

begs the question of HOW CAN YOU NOT NOTICE YOU'RE A ROBOT?

Heh. I think that question is going to pop up a lot in fandom.

Posted by: Elena (moscow_watcher)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 03:31 pm (UTC)

The fairy said so many cryptic lines. It reminds me Robyn-the-reality-stabilizer in "Anywhere But Here". People still wonder where's the prince she mentioned.

Posted by: ceciliaj (ceciliaj)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 04:47 pm (UTC)

Very interesting thoughts! Especially about Dowling. For some reason, my mind just goes blank when he's talking. But I'll be interested if he's gay :).

Posted by: Elena (moscow_watcher)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 05:30 pm (UTC)

So far, Dowling was so by-the-numbers that I thought he existed only to move the plot along and provide exposition. But if he turns out to be gay, it could be a very interesting character arc.

Posted by: Immortal Beloved (beloved_77)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 05:00 pm (UTC)

she acts as real Buffy

You know, that's a good point. I hadn't thought about it, but the original Buffybot acted nothing like the real Buffy. She could slay and had Buffy's knowledge of her friends and family, but her personality (robot-ality? :-P) was very Stepford. Of course, Warren programed her that way; but I don't think a robot could be programed well enough to exactly emulate a specific human's personality. The robot we see here has the real Buffy's exact personality.

the switch has happened between #6 and #7

I'm leaning mostly toward that, as well. When Spike asks Buffy if she meant what she said in issue #6, he says it was "the other night," not last night. So, there's been at least one night between numbers 6 and 7, which would give time for the switch.

many people are unhappy with them

I think they were very Buffy and Spike. In other words, Spike expressing exactly how he feels, and Buffy putting her stylish, yet affordable boot in her mouth. :-P The only way I'd be unhappy with them is if it turns out that it wasn't the real Buffy's consciousness at all, just the robot. It would completely negate anything that happened, and I would not be a happy camper. >:-(

it's a huge issue in USA

There have been a number of states that are trying to change their abortion laws recently. So, it's sort of a hot-button issue right now.


Posted by: Elena (moscow_watcher)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 06:34 pm (UTC)

The only way I'd be unhappy with them is if it turns out that it wasn't the real Buffy's consciousness at all, just the robot. It would completely negate anything that happened, and I would not be a happy camper. >:-(


I don't think they could waste a whole issue on a non-Buffy. It just doesn't make sense.

There have been a number of states that are trying to change their abortion laws recently. So, it's sort of a hot-button issue right now.

Oh, I see. Sometimes I think that only we, Russians, have really serious problems - like total corruption in all governmental structures, including police, courts and media. But, obviously, you guys have your own share of problems. :(

Posted by: Rebcake (rebcake)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 05:25 pm (UTC)
ats_eww_harm

Well, San Francisco looked very nice. The bugs and sockets were funny. I'm really not sure how I feel about anything else.

Personally, I'd be happier if Spike guarded his heart a bit more. The whole "no slaying for pregnant ladies" was weird characterization for both characters. 1) Spike might say it, though he's usually smarter than that. He has occasionally done the old-fashioned chivalry thing without thinking. 2) Buffy would never capitulate on such a point. And I don't mean agreeing and then doing what she wants anyway. I mean it would raise her hackles like whoa and is not the kind of thing she backs away from ever.

Posted by: Elena (moscow_watcher)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 07:55 pm (UTC)
Duster_by_awmp

Personally, I'd be happier if Spike guarded his heart a bit more.

Yes, me too - but at the same time I know that one of the reasons I love him so much is because he wears his heart on his sleeve. Poor Spikey...

The whole "no slaying for pregnant ladies" was weird characterization for both characters. 1) Spike might say it, though he's usually smarter than that. He has occasionally done the old-fashioned chivalry thing without thinking. 2) Buffy would never capitulate on such a point. And I don't mean agreeing and then doing what she wants anyway. I mean it would raise her hackles like whoa and is not the kind of thing she backs away from ever.

I may be terribly old-fashioned, but I have much stronger feelings about pregnant Nikki's Cruciamentum. To me, parental duty is more important that civil duty. So, I'm torn here. On one hand, I find Spike's chivalry touching, on the other hand, I understand Buffy's frustration.

Posted by: TimeTravellingBunny (boot_the_grime)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 11:18 pm (UTC)
Buffy Always Darkest

I wouldn't say she agreed - the last we see of that discussion is her angry look. Maybe Spike left in the middle of the argument or she wasn't in the mood to keep arguing.

Posted by: TimeTravellingBunny (boot_the_grime)
Posted at: March 15th, 2012 11:14 pm (UTC)
Buffy Spike Spuffy season 7

I don't agree on the happy ending - I agree that it would have been too fast and they're going to drag it along, but two characters in love kissing after one of them has made a declaration of love (or even after both of them have made it) does not a happy ending make. The whole issue is whether it's possible to make the relationship work, for a multitude of reasons. They haven't even resolved the conversation they were having, since Buffy didn't get to explain how she felt, and whether she even wants "normal" that Spike thinks she does. I don't think she does. And if she did and if she were really rejecting Spike as he thought she was - which is really unlikely considering her gestures and expression and the context - it's not like she would have changed her mind instantly just because Spike said he wanted normal life and could give it to her? But really, I don't think "normal" would work for Buffy, I don't want Spike to be "normal" and I don't know if they're even able to do have a "normal" life even if they want to.

Posted by: Elena (moscow_watcher)
Posted at: March 16th, 2012 03:25 pm (UTC)

two characters in love kissing after one of them has made a declaration of love (or even after both of them have made it) does not a happy ending make.

Yes, but it radically lessens the scale of possible conflicts. And it's conflicts that drive the narrative - so Joss won't go there, I think. But there will be a lot of teasing and baiting - both in the text and in interviews.

(I'm reading the #7 thread on Buffyforums, and it's entertaining and frustrating at the same time. I don't remember such strong reaction since 2002. Even space-frak didn't divide the fandom that much.)

Posted by: TimeTravellingBunny (boot_the_grime)
Posted at: March 16th, 2012 06:00 pm (UTC)

Rahirah sums up my feelings on the matter here: http://rahirah.livejournal.com/543895.html

There are lots of conflicts to drive the narrative even if you're writing about two relatively ordinary people trying to make a relationship work long-term and dealing with real life - let alone if your couple are Slayer and vampire, where the question "can they make it work" is such an obvious source of conflict that can be milked for drama and comedy.

Posted by: Elena (moscow_watcher)
Posted at: March 16th, 2012 06:29 pm (UTC)

Yes, I read her post, and my hands were itching to reply, but I decided against it, because my disagreements go beyond characters dynamics. I think (I may be wrong) that, for Joss, Buffy is mostly a tragic hero, with occasional comedic elements. She exists only within these two "royal" genres - tragedy and comedy. She doesn't belong to domestic drama. Her story is about impossible choices, terrible sacrifices and ultimate loneliness.

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